Saturday, February 7, 2015

Wake Up B42 Late!


Kopp Disclosure
(John 3:19-21)

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    Whenever I've taught homiletics, I repeat what was repeated to me: "If it's worth saying once, it's worth saying twice; and if it's not worth saying twice, it's not worth saying once."

    Or as the authentic said to the poser after the poser complained about the authentic being redundant, "And I will keep being redundant until you get it!"

    Wake up B42 Late!

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    We know our President has family links to Islam.

    We know he can't bear to connect the dots between Islamofascistnutball terror and you know who because...

    Buuuuuuut he's gotta stop running the country like a rap group on the South Side or elective course at Dartmouth.

    And what's up with our cowardly media?

    Why can't they just report the facts if they can't handle the truth?

    Oh, oops, gulp, geez, sigh, yeah, we've heard about the icon over there at NBC...and the first woman who will be elected to succeed the rap group leader...

    Liar, liar, pants on...

    While ya'll are playing your politically correct games, children are being beheaded, women are being raped, non-combatants are being slaughtered, relief workers are being butchered, and...all in the name of you know who...while you sip your cordials and act like the fool in one of those movies with OJ as a fireworks warehouse explodes, "Nothing to see here!  Nothing to see here!"

    It is hard to believe our President and his sycophants in the media and "education" are so intellectually dishonest, historically illiterate, and...or...

    There has never been any moral equivalency between people who follow the real Jesus by the real person/pattern of Jesus and people who follow the real you know who...

    BTW, Jesus was known - historically as well as spiritually documented - as a man of peace, compassion, mercy, grace, invitation, inclusion, and agape.

    BTW, Mr. President and..., you know who was known - historically documented - as a warrior and pedophile.

    Stop lying.

    Stop "reimagining" who they were to fit your lame ideologies and stop "revising" history for the same.

    Shame on you!

    Shame on you, Mr. President!

    Shame on you, media!

    Shame on you, clergy!

    Shame on you, professors!

    And shame on people like me for...

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The Big Lie


Kopp Disclosure
(John 3:19-21)

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    She asked, "What the hell is going on?"

    He said, "Hell."

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    There are Muslims who say they love Mohammed by The Koran who slaughter children and non-combatants, chop off heads, throw gays out windows to their death, torture with such horror that our media and nanny state won't report/expose it for civilized consumption compelling response, treat women worse than dogs, and don't blush during their barbaric behaviors.

    Many Muslims say those kinda Muslims are not real Muslims.

    There are mainline denominational Christians who say they love Jesus by the book by increasing majorities who are increasingly syncretistic, subversive to the sanctity of all human life from womb to tomb, and obsessed with sexual and marital ethics distinct from 2K+ years of Biblical, confessional, constitutional, historical, traditional, and common sense Christianity.

    Many Christians say those kinda Christians are not real Christians.

    Let's start connecting the dots.

    Who is a Muslim?

    Who is a Christian?

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    Islam is not defined by anyone other than its founder Mohammed.

    Christianity is not defined by anyone other than its founder Jesus.

    Don't blame Mohammed for so-called "Muslims" who don't follow him by his book.

    Don't blame Jesus for so-called "Christians" who don't follow Him by His book.

    There are Muslims who are authentic to Islam by following Mohammed by his book and there are "Muslims" who are posers who "reimagine" Islam apart from Mohammed by his book.

    There are Christians who are authentic to Christianity by following Jesus by His book and there are "Christians" who are posers who "reimagine" Christianity apart from Jesus by His book.

    Let's connect the dots.

    Only those Muslims who follow their founder as defined by their founder in his book are authentic.

    Only those Christians who follow their founder as defined by their founder in His book are authentic.

    Those who do not follow their founders as defined by their founders in their books are posers.

    Redundant?

    Well, for some reason that defies intellect, our media, mainline denominations, entertainment, government, BBPBHO, and others with two feet planted firmly in the air can't seem to or don't want to connect the dots.

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    Let's keep connecting the dots.

    Would Mohammed, the historical not "reimagined" founder of Islam, slaughter children and non-combatants, chop off heads, throw gays out windows to their death, torture with barbaric lust, and treat women worse than dogs?

    How we answer that question will answer who is authentic to Islam or just posing another version of "reimagined" Islam.

    Would Jesus, the historical not "reimagined" founder of Christianity, slaughter children and non-combatants, chop off heads, throw gays out windows to their death, torture with barbaric lust, treat women worse than dogs, abort the unborn, preside at same-sex nuptials, and endorse sexual ethics so distinct from the 27 books of the New Testament so notoriously associated with Him?

    How we answer that question will answer who is authentic to Christianity or just posing another version of "reimagined" Christianity.

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    Parenthetically, I guess it's O.K. to come up with "reimagined" versions of Islam and Christianity; as long as ya admit that they're not authentic to the originals.

    Pretending posing is authentic is, uh, lying.

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    About 12-14 years ago, I was privileged to participate in a community Thanksgiving service in a mid-sized Midwest city.

    The editor of a local newspaper was also participating; and, of note, she/he was an elder in a local church in our shared franchise.

    I said, "_____, the Confessing Church Movement is one of the most significant things happening in mainline denominations today; and, well, being that you're an elder at _____ Presbyterian Church, I'm surprised that you haven't at least run an AP snippet on it in the _____."

    She said, "I'm against it and will do everything that I can to defeat it."

    Me: "Oh, I thought your job was to report the news, make editorial comment on the news; but not shape what the public needs to know about the news."

    I don't recall another serious conversation with her/him after that.

    Connecting the dots, that's a metaphor for why we're not getting a handle on what the hell is going on.

    When we "reimagine" rather than report then editorialize, we don't know what the hell is going on because we don't know what the hell we're talking about...or...we need to continue connecting the dots.

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    Jesus said Satan is the father/source/starter of lies.

    Satan is opposed to everything and everyone that/who is/are good and Godly as defined by mercy, compassion, grace, forgiveness, redemption, and agape.

    Satan, as Luther said, is a "clever trickster" who helps us to "reimagine" evil as good; so that those compromising with...or accommodating to...or conspiring with Satan "reimagine" slaughter and torture and degradation and depravity as evil evolved into good in some kinda twisted situational ethics kinda way.

    Sick?

    Yes.

    Satanic.

    Definitely!

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    Connecting the dots, the big lies being told about Mohammed and Jesus are being generated by the big liar in league with...

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My First Tattoo

Kopp Disclosure
(John 3:19-21)

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    I have nothing against tattoos; just thought I'd never want/get one.

    There are three reasons why I haven't gotten one yet.

    First, pain.  I don't like pain; especially when it can be avoided.  Everybody who's gotten one has told me that there's pain involved in the process.  So, count me out! 

    Second, until now, I haven't been convinced there is any design/picture/statement/whatever that I'd want on my body in a permanent kinda way; because what would happen if I changed my mind later on in a wineskin-expanding kinda way?  Really, I can't imagine how tattoo artists would/could have handled do-overs when it came to inking the names of babes in my life since I was in 8th grade.

    Third, until now, where would I want to be inked; like in, you know, part of the body?

    Fundies are probably infuriated already because I haven't mentioned Leviticus 19:28; but, c'mon, you know practically nobody pays attention to Biblical stuff when it conflicts with personal/corporate instincts/lusts and ethical rationalizations.  Just ask mainline denominations.

    Again, I have nothing against tattoos.

    My sister, sons, niece, nephew, and most of my biker buddies have 'em.

    My mommy and daddy taught me the common courtesy to mind my own business when it's none of my business; so I never comment on anybody else's ink, hair, hair color, hair length, facial hair, clothing, cars they drive, bikes they ride, where they eat, whether they wear helmets, or anything else unless it's perfume that could knock over a bull at fifty paces.  Steppenwolf sang a lot about that in Monster.  BTW, that's a really, really, really bad problem in most churches; because, unlike my mommy and daddy, most people in church haven't read Matthew 7:12 or have and think it only refers to how people are supposed to treat them and not vice versa.

    I learned from mommy, daddy, and Thumper when it comes to the aforementioned, "If you can't say somethin' nice,..."

    Sooooooo I have nothing against tattoos; just thought I'd never want/get one.

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    January 7, 2015.

    Islamofascistnutballs slaughter twelve people in the offices of Paris, France's Charlie Hebdo (satirical newspaper).

    Parenthetically, while I know the media, entertainment, mainline denominations, politicians, Harry Potter's creator, Joy, Whoppi, and especially BBPBHO have no fear when it comes to holding Christians accountable for behaviors antithetical to Jesus by the book because people who follow Jesus by the book - Don't blame Jesus for so-called "Christians" who don't follow Him by the book! - don't go around chopping off heads and slaughtering non-combatants and remaining silent about the bastard children of religions about Jesus that seldom have anything to do with a relationship with Jesus, all of 'em are soooooooafraid to ask the kinda questions that may help ameliorate the increasing madness (see "An Open Letter to Muslims" by scrolling down).

    When the Presidents of France and the USA can't bring themselves to tell the truth about what's going on...

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    January 11, 2015.

    Sometime just after midnight, I had a dream/vision/inspiration/indigestion.

    I got a tattoo.

    It was a yellow star of David with "Je suis Charlie" inscribed on it.

    Left arm above the elbow.

    Anybody familiar with history understands the previous and contemporary symbolism.

    If not, shame on yu'uns!

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    Targets.

    Islamofascistnutballs are targeting anyone who won't submit to their phony deity.

    I'll bet in a Christian kinda way that they will be especially focused on...

    That's why I want to be identified with them - confessionally and visibly.

    I don't know if I'm gonna get a tattoo or cloth patch or button with a picture and inscription or...

    But I've got to do something for Christ's sake.

    As my parents taught me, it's a common courtesy to...Jesus.

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An Open Letter to Muslims

Dear Followers of Mohammed,

I am writing to you as a follower of Jesus; meaning I believe He is Lord and Savior and try to behave accordingly.

Christians regard Jesus as the perfect personification of God and the Bible as providing the perfect prescriptions for following Him.

Assuming you are trying to follow your leader Mohammed according to your sacred literature, I have increasing concerns about how you participate in civilization.

Surely, “Muslims” are like “Christians” in diversity of beliefs and behaviors; acknowledging any connection between some beliefs and behaviors and their founders by their books are often just coincidental.

I differentiate between posers and authentics.

Posers follow their leaders by their books when it’s convenient to their egocentric wants, feelings, needs, and opinions; as in, “I know that’s what Jesus/Mohammed says, but I think…”

Authentics follow their leaders by their books; surrendering the egocentric to the theocentric; as in, “God said it.  I believe it.  That settles it.”

While my guess is some of what I am writing may appeal to posers who are moderately committed to their leaders – “Yeah, that’s right!  I am a moderate!  I’m moderately committed to Jesus/Mohammed as long as it doesn’t, you know, conflict with my wants, feelings, needs, and opinions!” – I am hoping this will attract attention from Muslims who are trying to follow Mohammed by the book.

I have two concerns about how authentic Muslims participate in civilization.

First, from everything that I’ve read about Mohammed and observed in Muslims who follow him by the book, it’s noticeably barbaric from most civilized points of view.

I mean, let’s face it.  Cutting off heads for apostasy, cutting off other body parts for lesser infidelities, and degrading women in so many ways just doesn’t seem very, uh, civilized from most, uh, civilized points of view.

When someone makes fun of Mohammed in a silly cartoon or sophomoric video, you go apoplectic.  You make our snake-handling Pentecostals look like Emily Post devotees.  Are you that emotionally fragile that you can’t handle people who don’t esteem Mohammed like you do?  Yeah, I know you’ve got this convert-to-us-or-be-killed-by-us thing going.  But think about us!  We are a constant source of comic material for Saturday Night Live, Bill Maher, Kathy Griffin, and so many others who don’t have to worry about Christians declaring death warrants against them.

And what’s up with the masks when you do your beheading thing?  You look like America’s old KKK on steroids!  It comes off rather cowardly.  If you have the courage of your convictions, man up, name it, and claim it!

Your leaders of your leader are quick to convince their followers that there are dozens of virgins awaiting those who get knocked off for your cause.  While that sounds like something very appealing to Cub Scouts in heat, it comes off as rather juvenile to the rest of us.  Really, is that what your heaven is mostly about?  Sex with virgins?  Whoa.

Second, if what I just wrote is really, really, really wrong about Muslims who follow Mohammed by the book, why don’t you condemn their barbarity and tell everyone that they’re not following Mohammed by the book? 

There’s no such thing as a silent majority.  Everybody knows silence about bad behaviors emanating from bad beliefs accommodates and enables them.  If they’re wrong about Mohammed by the book, then you owe it to, uh, Mohammed to tell them about it and convince us that we’re wrong about thinking Islam is barbaric from civilized points of view.

Christians who believe in Jesus by the book have always been quick to criticize the bad behaviors of people posing as Christians.

Don’t even bring up the Crusades!

Jesus and people who really are authentically believing in Jesus by the book would never have approved of the barbaric behaviors emanating from the bad beliefs of the Crusaders.  They were about as authentically devoted to Jesus by the book as we are hoping you will tell us are those barbarians masquerading as Muslims who go around chopping off body parts, degrading women, and declaring death warrants against anyone who disagrees with their version of Islam.My 

We’re not asking you to become like us.

We’re just asking you to be more conciliatory and recognize the planet has enough space for all of us.

Before everything but heaven breaks out, please show the world that Mohammed by the book isn’t as barbaric as we’re reluctantly concluding by the behaviors of so many of those who claim to follow him.

If you cannot get your house in order, we will not let you invade ours much longer.

Sincerely,

A Follower of Jesus

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No More Excuses


Kopp Disclosure
(John 3:19-21)

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    I'm tired of making excuses for the PCUSA, President, church and family members, and me.

    I'm tired of making excuses for anyone, especially me, who behaves badly.

    Until we start admitting our bad behaviors instead of rationalizing or covering them up, we'll never get better.

    Before going any further, I confess I have sinned, sin, and will sin.

    That's my human condition/instinct.

    That's not an excuse.

    That's a confession that I pray and hope and labor to lead to repentance or changing my bad behaviors for Christ's sake by the book for His glory and the benefit of those around me who are often hurt by my bad behaviors.

    1 John 1:5-10 comes to mind.

    I have learned to confess, "I may be wrong; and if you think I am wrong and show me how I am wrong by the example of Jesus, revelations of Holy Scripture, and common sense, I will confess my sin, pray and labor to repent, and ask forgiveness from our Lord, you, and anyone that I have hurt, misled, or otherwise offended by my sin.  But if you are saying I am wrong by a worldly standard, tradition, prejudice, political correctness, or idolatry antithetical to Jesus, the Bible, and common sense, don't waste my time with your infidelity."

    Sooooooo I no longer make excuses for myself.

    I no longer make excuses for any religious group irretrievably apostate under its current management by its contradictions of Jesus by the book.

    I no longer make excuses for a President who seems like a nice guy but is either afraid of or sympathizing with a terrible religion so unlike the mercy, compassion, grace, forgiveness, inclusion, welcoming, and agape of Jesus with no exclusions allowed by color, class, culture, or even sin.

    I no longer make excuses for Democrats, Republicans, unions, school boards, capitalists, socialists, statists, Baptists, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Methodists, Roman Catholics, Pentecostals, fundamentalists, or any other idolatrously ideological human invention if they are behaving badly because they are not following Jesus by the book.

    I no longer make excuses for church and family members who think familiarity breeds attempt and we'll just endure and enable their bad behaviors because, well, uh, geez, darn, ya can't pick your relatives or some other nonsense like that.

    I no longer have to be right, win, or anything else if I see or someone kind points out my bad behaviors compared to Jesus, the Bible, and common sense.

    Bottom line.

    Don't tell me or waste time trying to convince me to respect people who don't respect God in Jesus by the book; because no one is above reproach except Jesus by the book.

    With Islamists on the move - the ones who've picked up arms to slaughter non-combatants and chop off heads and treat women worse than dogs and other barbarically-born-in-hell behaviors and the nice ones who continue to enable their vicious family members by blaring silence and cowardly reticence - we no longer have the luxury not to call them out for behaving badly and we no longer have the luxury not to call out those who enable their bad behaviors for fear or sympathy.

    I think of the little boy who listened to his father agree with a pro-lifer and then agree with a pro-choicer.  He challenged, "Daddy, they can't both be right!"  Response: "You're right!"

    This hour of human history requires something/Someone better.

    Jesus by the book.

    He is the only one who can save us.

    No more excuses.

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Now go to the right column and click on "My First Tattoo" from the archives.

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Remnant Network - 23: "An Open Letter to Muslims"


Kopp Disclosure
(John 3:19-21)

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"There is a remnant..."

Romans 11

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An Open Letter to Muslims

Dear Followers of Mohammed,

I am writing to you as a follower of Jesus; meaning I believe He is Lord and Savior and try to behave accordingly.

Christians regard Jesus as the perfect personification of God and the Bible as providing the perfect prescriptions for following Him.

Assuming you are trying to follow your leader Mohammed according to your sacred literature, I have increasing concerns about how you participate in civilization.

Surely, “Muslims” are like “Christians” in diversity of beliefs and behaviors; acknowledging any connection between some beliefs and behaviors and their founders by their books are often just coincidental.

I differentiate between posers and authentics.

Posers follow their leaders by their books when it’s convenient to their egocentric wants, feelings, needs, and opinions; as in, “I know that’s what Jesus/Mohammed says, but I think…”

Authentics follow their leaders by their books; surrendering the egocentric to the theocentric; as in, “God said it.  I believe it.  That settles it.”

While my guess is some of what I am writing may appeal to posers who are moderately committed to their leaders – “Yeah, that’s right!  I am a moderate!  I’m moderately committed to Jesus/Mohammed as long as it doesn’t, you know, conflict with my wants, feelings, needs, and opinions!” – I am hoping this will attract attention from Muslims who are trying to follow Mohammed by the book.

I have two concerns about how authentic Muslims participate in civilization.

First, from everything that I’ve read about Mohammed and observed in Muslims who follow him by the book, it’s noticeably barbaric from most civilized points of view.

I mean, let’s face it.  Cutting off heads for apostasy, cutting off other body parts for lesser infidelities, and degrading women in so many ways just doesn’t seem very, uh, civilized from most, uh, civilized points of view.

When someone makes fun of Mohammed in a silly cartoon or sophomoric video, you go apoplectic.  You make our snake-handling Pentecostals look like Emily Post devotees.  Are you that emotionally fragile that you can’t handle people who don’t esteem Mohammed like you do?  Yeah, I know you’ve got this convert-to-us-or-be-killed-by-us thing going.  But think about us!  We are a constant source of comic material for Saturday Night Live, Bill Maher, Kathy Griffin, and so many others who don’t have to worry about Christians declaring death warrants against them.

And what’s up with the masks when you do your beheading thing?  You look like America’s old KKK on steroids!  It comes off rather cowardly.  If you have the courage of your convictions, man up, name it, and claim it!

Your leaders of your leader are quick to convince their followers that there are dozens of virgins awaiting those who get knocked off for your cause.  While that sounds like something very appealing to Cub Scouts in heat, it comes off as rather juvenile to the rest of us.  Really, is that what your heaven is mostly about?  Sex with virgins?  Whoa.

Second, if what I just wrote is really, really, really wrong about Muslims who follow Mohammed by the book, why don’t you condemn their barbarity and tell everyone that they’re not following Mohammed by the book? 

There’s no such thing as a silent majority.  Everybody knows silence about bad behaviors emanating from bad beliefs accommodates and enables them.  If they’re wrong about Mohammed by the book, then you owe it to, uh, Mohammed to tell them about it and convince us that we’re wrong about thinking Islam is barbaric from civilized points of view.

Christians who believe in Jesus by the book have always been quick to criticize the bad behaviors of people posing as Christians.

Don’t even bring up the Crusades!

Jesus and people who really are authentically believing in Jesus by the book would never have approved of the barbaric behaviors emanating from the bad beliefs of the Crusaders.  They were about as authentically devoted to Jesus by the book as we are hoping you will tell us are those barbarians masquerading as Muslims who go around chopping off body parts, degrading women, and declaring death warrants against anyone who disagrees with their version of Islam.

You can’t blame Jesus for “Christians” who need more than just “some” Jesus in their lives as we are hoping you will tell us about those barbarians who claim to be following Mohammed so closely.

I guess it does come down to our leaders.

Would Mohammed do the things that those murderously marauding “Muslims” are doing in the name of Allah?

If not, you have to speak up!

If so, admit it and let the chips fall where they will!

Would Jesus do the things that those murderously marauding Crusaders did in the name of God?

Absolutely not!

That means anybody who is truly following Jesus by the book will not!

Though what I’ve read and seen from the barbaric “Muslims” and what I haven’t heard or seen from the other ones doesn’t add up to anything positive or redemptive for the place of Islam in a civilized world, I confess not being an expert; which is why I’m waiting for the rest of the Muslims to provide a verdict on the obviously barbaric ones.

I’m just somebody who loves Jesus who is trying to follow Him by the book; and the Jesus of the book is compassionate, merciful, forgiving, and, in short, urging His followers to love everybody like He loves everybody which includes praying and laboring for the best for everybody without regard to who, what, where, when, or why with no need or expectation for response, regard, or reward.

That means Christians who follow Jesus by the book are willing to co-exist with people who don’t want to follow Jesus by the book.

That seems so different from Islam. 

Islamists, the loud barbaric adherents and the silent accommodating and enabling ones, don’t seem to share such a commitment to co-existence.

Christianity, following Jesus by the book, can co-exist with everybody else.

Islam, from what I have read and seen, following Mohammed by the book, cannot co-exist with anybody else unless everybody else converts to it.

That doesn’t seem to leave many options for the rest of the civilized world.

I guess, when all is said and considered, either everybody else will have to go if they don’t convert to Islam or everybody else will have to team up and you’ll have to…

I hope and pray I’m wrong.

Please speak up and encourage us that we’re wrong about you.

For unlike what we’ve increasingly read about and increasingly seen from you, we would like to co-exist.

We’re not asking you to become like us.

We’re just asking you to be more conciliatory and recognize the planet has enough space for all of us.

Before everything but heaven breaks out, please show the world that Mohammed by the book isn’t as barbaric as we’re reluctantly concluding by the behaviors of so many of those who claim to follow him.

If you cannot get your house in order, we will not let you invade ours much longer.

Sincerely,


A Follower of Jesus


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Blessings and Love!

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12 comments:

Carl said...

All I have to say, is, "preach brother preach it!"

Craig said...

Love it. This was worth reading, more than once.

Neil D. Cowling said...

Normally, I don't fuss over anything you write, Bob, and I agree with your about most of it. I am concerned about your skewering of President Obama recently. There were parts of it that don't sound right. In rejoinder only about that I quote from Washington Post writer, E. J. Dionne, see http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/obamas-breakfast-prayer/2015/02/08/c82e0f7a-ae3b-11e4-abe8-e1ef60ca26de_story.html?hpid=z3

"Obama could not have been clearer in his condemnation of the Islamic State, 'a brutal, vicious death cult that, in the name of religion, carries out unspeakable acts of barbarism — terrorizing religious minorities like the Yazidis, subjecting women to rape as a weapon of war, and claiming the mantle of religious authority for such actions.'"

"Yet he also urged Christians not to 'get on our high horse' and to 'remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ.'”

"He added: 'In our home country, slavery and Jim Crow all too often was justified in the name of Christ.'"

Dionne adds "This last point, about a much more recent time, should be seared into our historical memories. Christian churches split over slavery and were deeply divided over segregation. It’s a fact that should make all Christians think very carefully about how we righteously use scripture to justify our current political commitments."

I think it is fair to say that none of us are without sin which speaks to why Obama chose to note history pretty much accurately. The history of the church is quite messy. So indeed let us not get on our high horse but condemn evil wherever it is. I think the president did that with respect to ISIS though not on the host of other issues about which you and I share similar opinions.

Neil said...

I agree, brother, with your general intellectual context.

As I have written before, I have refrained from pejoratives about our President and have never said anything of the kind in worship.

However, it is intellectually dishonest and historically illiterate to blame Jesus for Christians. Please read on.

However (2), can not dots be connected between the founder of Islam and...?

Our President is playing a very, very, very dangerous game of political correctness that is blowing up in the face...of the world.

Again, I know we are brothers; and, oh, yes, I am casting some pebbles from my glass house.

I have so many problems with people, like me, who claim to follow Jesus but don't follow Jesus.

I have so many problems with people who claiim to follow you know who and, uh, actually, uh, follow him pretty closely.

Blessings and Love!

Mark said...

Bob,

It is clear that religions and their religious leaders should not be judged by people who claim to be acting in their name, however, the conduct of the leader and the script that they have left for their followers should be the judge of the religion. The scripts are not the same.


Where one script tells its followers in Romans 12:14Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not. 15Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep. 16Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits. 17Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. 18If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. 19Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. 20Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. 21Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Mark said...

And simply tells us not to be like them or a part of them.
2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Mark 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Matthew 12:31 31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Matthew 10:14 14And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

No kill, maim or dominate. No dimitude or second class citizen.

Here is a good discussion on this subject. https://carm.org/christianity/sermons/colossians-45-6-proper-conduct-towards-unbelievers

Compare this with the script given my Muhammed and his angel that gave him a another gospel and another Jesus (Isa) who did not die on the cross and was not resurrected, was not the son of the father and is not everlasting from before the creation.

The Quran:
Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" (Translation is from the Noble Quran) The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

Mark said...

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord
Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

Mark said...

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."
Be not unequally yoked fine but "seize them and slay them wherever you find them"?
Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).

Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:193). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."

Mark said...

Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."

Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars). This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months). The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat. Once the Muslims had power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.

Quran (9:14) - "Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people." Humiliating and hurting non-believers not only has the blessing of Allah, but it is ordered as a means of carrying out his punishment and even "healing" the hearts of Muslims.

Mark said...

Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad". The context is obviously holy war.

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.

Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).

Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that unbelievers are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.

Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."

Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme." How does the Quran define a true believer?

Dr. Robert R. Kopp said...

Amen!

Ella Jane said...

Bob,

I have decided to follow Jesus, no turning back. Lots of talkers, some doers, but I just want to "be"...more like Him.
I'm deeply troubled at the state of apostasy in our country. My prayer is that Christian Leaders, Pastors, Ministers, Priests, Teachers, would awaken from our slumber and rise to prayer. the time to pray is now. the time to act...is surely now. I'm disturbed for a number of reasons: 1. the lack of faith in so many "believers"; 2. the racial divisions in our nation; 3. the increasing entry of unknowns into our country who bring unknown threats, violence, idols; 4. the very real threat of Islamic violence; 5 the lack of the church presence and voice in our Nation's Leaders.

It's time to pray, and see if God will hear our prayers, forgive our sins, and heal our land, and raise up righteous Leaders.