Friday, September 30, 2016

If You Really Don't Want Us to Leave

Kopp Disclosure
(John 3:19-21)




"I do not think that all who choose wrong roads perish; but
their rescue consists in being put back on the right road...

It is still either-or...

If we insist on keeping hell, we shall not see heaven.

If we accept heaven, we shall not be able to retain even
the smallest and most intimate souvenirs of hell."

C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce, 1945


    Though not unique to America's peril as paralleled in sister mainliners, sideliners, Democrats, Republicans, news media, entertainment, public education, colleges and universities and seminaries, and all of the below, the PCUSA, the ecclesiastical franchise holding my credentials, is increasingly as well as irretrievably apostate under current management.

    If I have to explain that to you, you are ignorant, deceived, defiant, apathetic, or co-conspiratorial with the author of all damning lies.

    As I accept God's forgiveness by grace through faith in Jesus for enabling the apostasies for most of my life and ministry while still finding myself playing footsies with the devil too often, I pray for collective rebirth anothen before it's too late.


    Though I have written ad nauseum about this for over 38 years, the recent publication of "Inevitable Tension" on this site and (9/9/16) sparked several friends and others to ask, "What will it take for pastors and churches like you to stay?"

    My initial response was we will be forced out when beliefs/behaviors enabled by apostates despite being antithetical to over 2K years of Biblical, confessional, constitutional, historical, traditional, and common sense Christianity are mandated for pastors and churches still trying to follow Jesus according to over 2K years of...

    Pastors and churches like me who cannot leave for reasons cited ad nauseum and available on this site and will be forced out if people who say they really don't want us to leave don't grow some and don't do what is necessary to keep us from leaving because we're being forced out.

    Again, it's not a matter of wanting to leave because of the apostasies.

    We understand the parable of the sower, high priestly prayer, and heroes like Luther, Bonhoeffer, King, and countless others who, like Jesus, ran into fires to save the perishing rather than away from fires to save themselves from the flames.

    While respecting others who have left and already felt forced out, many of us still remain faithfully and will remain faithfully unless/until we leave because we are forced out.


    To the question.

    If you really don't want us to leave, you will have to do two things.

    First, you will resist/defy any attempt/decision to turn the voluntary per capita apportionment into a mandatory per capita tax. 

    Pastors and churches like me will never again pay for anything/anyone that insults the holiness of God according to over 2K years of...

    Second, you will resist/defy any attempt/decision to mandate compliance with beliefs/behaviors antithetical to over 2K years of...

    It's that simple.

    If folks who say they really don't want us to leave cannot pledge/do that, we will leave because we will be forced out.

    We won't pretend periods of discernment.

    If either of those two things happen, we will be gone in eight days.

    All trends point to that inevitability.

    If you cannot see that, you think an elephant is a mouse with glandular problems.


    If you really don't want us to leave, you will make room for us.

    You won't enable attempts/decisions to force us to leave.


Blessings and Love!


Salt! Shine! Leavenate!



Look up! Stand up! Speak up! Act up for Jesus!



Anonymous said...

Dear Bob,

Thanks for taking time to meet with me a couple of weeks ago. It was helpful and challenging to me.

On another note, I often find your Kopp Disclosures helpful or interesting or thought provoking. In a recent one you delineated what it would take for you to leave the PCUSA. One issue had to do with making per capita mandatory. Another had to do with requiring pastors to marry same sex couples or something like that.

I fully agree with you on the second one - marrying same sex partners, though I think we may have more to fear from the federal government than from the hierarchy of the PCUSA. I don’t agree with you on the per capita assessment. For two reasons.

One is that if we are going to belong to a club then we should pay our dues. It seems to me that withholding per capita and still claiming to be Presbyterian is having the benefits of a connectional system but not paying our share. It is as if churches that withhold per capita have already withdrawn from the denomination, but can still benefit from being Presbyterian. It doesn’t quite seem right to me.

And withholding per capita makes it difficult for the presbytery to do its work. Granted, money in Blackhawk may have not been managed very well when it came to Stronghold, but churches withholding per capita are making it hard to for presbytery to do its work - e.g. The Crisis Management Team, or whatever it’s called. I guess maybe there are three reasons.

The final reason is more strategic. If a church chooses to withhold per capita, what reason is there for the presbytery to listen to its pastor’s voice? Of course, there is the wisdom in what the pastor says. But it is pretty easy to discount that wisdom if everyone knows that the church is not paying its fair share.

I am sure you have heard this stuff before and maybe even thought it through in a way I haven’t, but that’s pretty much what I have to say on this matter.

Again, thanks for meeting with me. Thanks for the leadership you offer in Blackhawk.

Dr. Robert R. Kopp said...


Thank you for taking the time to respond so graciously and persuasively.

Parenthetically, our Lord blessed me through you during our time together.

I tend to agree with you on the state being far more inclined to dictate than the franchise; though I still remember Kenyon and how he was promised sanctuary and then exorcised.

Unfortunately, I am a little haunted by two conversations - one with a judicatory staff member and the other with a leading laywoman. I asked point blank, "If the denomination mandates compliance to rites contrary to my conscience captive to over 2K years of Biblical, confessional, constitutional, historical, traditional, and common sense Christianity, will you help me defy it?" Neither replied. Total silence. That spoke loudly to me.

Your comments about per capita are persuasive; though taking money from people who love Jesus by the book and want to honor Him thusly and handing it over to folks who will use it to administratively enable stuff contradicting their consciences captive to over 2K years of...seems illogical.

Yet, in a way that I have rationalized the whole thing not to my or anyone else's satisfaction and trusting you know I am being more transparent than defensive, we have done two things on the corner of Lincoln and Main that keep our toes in the pool of per capita: (1) We forward all designated donations through our envelope boxes for per capita; and (2) We have decided to use our undesignated voluntary per capita apportionment donations to purchase recreational equipment for children attending programs at Stronghold. I think the total comes out about the same as the assessment...or pretty close. I may be wrong.

Yes, I struggle with the logic as well as theology of the whole thing; and appreciate your comments that encourage more prayer, reflection, consultation, and deliberation.

Your faith encourages mine.

Blessings and Love!